shazza d wrote...

Ok - firstly I would like to say that I am an outsider, im not from Merseyside and moved here 7 years ago. As an outsider looking in - this debate is always in the air. Heaven forbid a RED and BLUE get into a conversation (blood would be shed.)
It seems that one team will always put down another HOWEVER it always seems to originate in the RED corner. (In my opinion and observations)Liverpool club seem to have a smug disposition and always love to put Everton down, now I cannot claim to know 100% information about scores and trophies etc however I feel that Everton IS the peoples club. They have passion for their club and genuinely support their team for their spirit and tenacity.
I feel that MOST Liverpool fans aren't even from Liverpool at all!! Most of the fans come from all over the place (not that there is anything wrong with that) - however if we are talking about THE merseyside team then i think everton wins hands down.
I think that the heart and spirit of Everton comes first over the perhaps score card of Liverpool.

Posted by: shazza d  | March 28, 2007 12:54 PM

Mark wrote...

Well I have to say Trophies are important because it shows not just MERSEYSIDE but also the rest of the footballing world that Liverpool FC or any other club for that matter is successful also it brings thousands of people to our City, the more success the more fame, the more fame the more people visit which brings revenue.
People have different belives about this subject and I dont think you will find a suitable answer with all the different opinions,
But as an avid Liverpool FC supporter I say THE MORE TROPHIES the BETTER hahaha

Posted by: Mark  | March 28, 2007 1:46 PM

Chris wrote...

Everton are NOT the peoples club, they never even sell out ENOUGH SAID

Posted by: Chris  | March 28, 2007 2:01 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

That's right, Everton don't sell out, but Liverpool sold out to the Yanks and I know which way I'd rather have it.

Get back down the pub, or to a rare trip to Anfield with your giant foam finger, swinging your scarf and singing cringeworthy songs.

Liverpool and their fans are so far out of touch with reality, it really is unbelievable.

If your life revolves around your team winning trophies, then you obviously have something lacking from your sad, lonely existence.

Read this;

http://bluenotes.merseyblogs.co.uk/

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 28, 2007 2:06 PM

Tracey wrote...

I find it hard to comment on this. I have friends both red and blue who all equally seem to be passionate about their clubs.
I think that as long as the passion is there from a supporter the club is lucky to have them. So people's club is misleading title. Every club will have die-hard fans and every club will have flitting fans.

I think titles and trophies do have to be a part of a clubs success - winning games is how we measure success so winning titles has to be important. But we also have to recognise that bigger clubs can afford to buy in the big players.

I think Chelsea proved that by BUYING the premiership title.

Posted by: Tracey  | March 28, 2007 2:59 PM

Karen Miller wrote...

I still agree with the beginning of yesterday's blog. Sometimes you can be a bit of a knob.
Oh, I'm a poet and I didn't even know it.

Posted by: Karen Miller  | March 28, 2007 3:12 PM

Phil Lennon wrote...

People who are beautiful dont have to state they are...people who are ugly claim beautiful people are ugly...people who are ugly say they are beautiful

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 28, 2007 3:14 PM

Phil Lennon wrote...

Sorry Shazza were are you from again?
Who do you support?
You're last comment has presented me with a loaded gun

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 28, 2007 3:15 PM

Phil Lennon wrote...

The long winded belief of Evertonians being racists is backed up by their theory that telling us most of our fans are from out of the city is a bad thing...why?
You cant hide from the fact that you use our fans origins as an object to beat us with. Shows a narrow minded biggotted view of nothing other than discrimination. And now we have the sold out to the Yanks barracking...again this is a bad thing why?...the only time you've filled you're stadium in recent months was because Rocky was there...and where is he from again?

Ever seen the League of Gentlemen?
The 2 inbred brother and sister who are married owning the local shop and wont let anyone in to their little world.

A half full ground on 3rd round FA Cup day proves the League of Gentlemen theory....

This is a local club for local people there is nothing for you here!

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 28, 2007 3:35 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

Hey Phil Lennon, put that little riddle on a masive banner, and swing your scarf round in the pub.

Write me another poem, LOSER.

http://bluenotes.merseyblogs.co.uk/

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 28, 2007 3:43 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

Hey Phil Lennon, put that little riddle on a masive banner, and swing your scarf round in the pub.

Write me another poem, LOSER.

http://bluenotes.merseyblogs.co.uk/

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 28, 2007 3:45 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

Phil Lennon, you are so idiotic it is unreal.

Nothing said here even suggests racism, but EVERYTHING you say suggests you are clutching at straws.

Liverpool 'fans' perpetuate the pathetic notion of the Superfan, who goes to every game, buys every item of memorabilia, and tries to prove they love their club more than anyone else.

Everton still relate to the great days of football - pre-sky - remember that? When people would go to as many games as they could afford, and every fan still loved the club. There was no overblown displays of fanatacism.

It is a working class sport, that has been ushered towards a middle class pastime by the likes of the guttersnipes at Anfield.

I resent the accusation of racism. By pointing out Liverpool's out of town support, which is at an unhealthy ratio to local support, we are merely highlighting a worrying part of footballing culture.

Take your Norwegians, take badgeman and Mr Fun, take your ridiculous 'poetic' banners, embarrassing songs, bitterness, your superiority complex and crawl back under your 'Talk Sport' stone.

Good day, that is all.

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 28, 2007 4:39 PM

Phil Lennon wrote...

Here is another poem...
"The peoples club"

David Moyes says he only sees Blues on the streets...well he wants to ask them to get off the streets and get in the ground...any club that pride themselves on passion but advertise half season tickets at Christmas have got serious problems...this debate over moving to Kirkby can be solved in an instant...simple...dont move you fill 40,000 who the hell do you think you are believing you can fill 55,000

Everton are obsessed with Liverpool...you all know the song the famous one they sing at the end of games...we dont care what the red sh**e say...but you do...because you main song begins with us...not acclaiming your team, a past player or manager but us yes us.

An example of blue bitterness...

During the recent Everton defeat at home to Spurs the reds were on their annual European tour kicking the arse of the European Champions...on Barcelona scoring first, in the middle of Evertons 1st half the score board showed an update...BARCELONA 1 - 0 LIVERPOOL...surprisingly enough it didn't update this score and show BARCELONA 1 - 1 LIVERPOOL and finally BARCELONA 1 - 2 LIVERPOOL 2...how more obsessed can you get?!

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 28, 2007 4:40 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

Again, clutching at straws.

Not one reference to the important points.

There are very few Premiership or European teams who actually do fill their ground every week.
Considering our lack of success in the past 10 years, I'd say we're doing a hell of a lot better than most.

Why don't most Scousers go the Liverpool games? No tickets?

How about the 3000 MANDATORY tickets that have to go on sale according to F.A. rules?

Come on scousers, get down to Anfield and get yourselves a ticket, that includes you Phillip.

Ahhh, you wouldn't do that though would you? The armchair is far more comfortable.

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 28, 2007 4:51 PM

Karen Miller wrote...

I have been a Liverpool supporter all my life. I think it was having my dad and older brother as Liverpool fans that did it. I went to my first game at Anfield with my dad when I was about 11. Being a lot older than the rest of you that was in the 60's. It was against Hibernian!!!!!! I was hooked from then on and started to go to Melwood to watch them train with my brother - in those days you could do that - I have an autograph/scrap book which I will bring in for anyone to see if they want. You will have to understand that I was 11 when I did it. Autographs include the great Shanks (football is not a matter of life and death, it's far more important than that), Callaghan, St John, Peter Thompson, Gerry Byrne, Tommy Lawrence, Emlyn Hughes, to name a few. I went through 2 phases of going to all home games, once in my late teens/early 20's - I then married for a short time and stopped going. The other was when I met a lad from Huddersfield while on holiday in Bulgaria when I was 30. It just so happened that he was a Liverpool supporter so we started going again. I've even seen them beat Everton at Wembley. It was brilliant. I also went to one of their Christmas parties once and I have photographs of me with Phil Thompson, Alan Hansen, Jimmy Case, John Toshack, Kenny Dalglish and many more. I can also bring these into work if anyone wishes.

Posted by: Karen Miller  | March 28, 2007 4:52 PM

Phil Lennon wrote...

Strange how Andy refers to us proclaiming the super fan as a bad thing but states most of us watch the Reds from the pub or our armchair as also bad...which is it? Is going to every game bad or is not going at all bad? please let us know all wise Andy.

And yes Andy we (Reds) do remember pre Sky as it was the last time we won the Championship, nearly TWENTY YEARS AGO!..yet despite our failures 45,000 sell outs every week against whoever with a further 20,000 on the waiting list...surely not the showing of glory hunters!

As you know more than most the dark days just prior to Mr Kendall bringing great success saw attendances dip below 15,000 at the Blue shed...then you started winning and all the glory seekers appeared...Backs up the theory of Evertonians as have selective memory

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 28, 2007 4:58 PM

Mike Lennon wrote...

You seem to be proud of failure. The point of a sports club is meant to be about, compete, challenge, succeed, win.

Because you stick to your club even though they fail on all these points and we stick to ours and they happen to meet all these points. You actually critisise us because we win things. Is this supposed to be a bad thing.

And the 3000 tickets on mandatory sale is a lie! holds no substance at all.

If we are proud to be Liverpool supporters we should be able to without being abused. You hate us...I was in Istanbul and the other 30,000 fans inside the ground who sung the most passionate YNWA at half time when we were 3-0 down is something even your own club and fans could never begin to understand. No club on earth has that mystical and magical feelng that we have with our club, we dont have luck we are guided by a higher force. You will never feel the pride in standing by your team at their darkest hour to see them an hour later walk past us holding the European Cup. I will never forget the other 500,000 fans who lined the streets the next day not a single one from Asia or Norway. I love my club and nice one for loving yours but if we happen to be successful along the way you have no right to judge us for it.

I saw your comments on our attendances and other facts, you clearly know our history I dont know anything of such detail and nor do I want to about yours. If you want a debate you hammer your negative facts about us because your positive facts about your own club pale into insignificance against our glorious past present and future.

You'll Never Walk Alone

Posted by: Mike Lennon  | March 28, 2007 7:43 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

Guided by a higher force? Please, get into reality.
That is the most pretentious, self serving bollocks I have ever had the misfortune to waste a minute of my life reading.

You thing Liverpool fans are so great because they sung 'the most passionate YNWA' at half time in Istanbul (sniff, that's so inspirational, it makes me want to vomit into the latest 'poem on a banner')
You call that a dark hour? You don't even know you're born mate.
By the way, trust me on this, there were plenty of foreigners in town when Liverpool brought the cup back, plenty of cockneys and nobody's and hangers on.
Your club is not magical or mystical, maybe to you presonally, but they are just a football club, that is all.
Your complete arrogance is sickening as I follow a great club, with great traditions, and a great history. I don't judge your success, it is a great thing, the only problem I have is that Liverpool fans seem to think that their club is a status symbol for their life, that in some way it makes them personally a better or more successful human being.

The reality couldn't be further from the truth.

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 29, 2007 9:43 AM

Phil Lennon wrote...

You criticise us for living in the past but continue to class yourselves as a great club based on your history not the present, you continue to berate us over our clever worded banners yet you're favourite line is this crap about Evertonians dont choose they are chosen...well Liverpool Football Club are a civilised democratic institution who welcome all colours and creeds. No wonder most of you are bitter...if you are all chosen there is bound to be blues who actually dont want to be Evertonians.

This continued superiority complex you have that make you think that because you follow passionately a clapped out run down football club makes you all great because, 'oh aren't Evertonians amazing for sticking with such a sh**e team' get over yourselves!

You think of yourselves as a higher force and treat yourselves as martyrs. We think of our club as great you think of yourselves as fans as great not your club as if its so difficult to follow them.

You even had a twenty year head start on us but pale into insignificance!

No Liverpool Anthem mentions Everton, your most famous song you sing to celebrate a victory begins with you not caring what we say...makes you look stupid if you dont care what we say dont mention us...obsessed with us you are...the Barcelona score update last month proves this how utterly pathetic. Move to Kirkby become Kirkby Football Club or KFC!

If you hate us so much leave us alone and get out of our city

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 29, 2007 10:11 AM

Andy Ashton wrote...

I am going to round my comments off now, as I know you are getting very upset.

I did not criticise you for living in the past, there is nothing wrong with having a great history and being proud of it.

The comment about being chosen which you mentioned, was made by one of the greatest players this country ever had, Brian Labone, and he was more qualified to comment than some little no-mark with too much time on his hands;

"Evertonians are born, not manufactured,
They do not choose, they are chosen.
People who understand, need no explanation,
People who don't, don't matter"

You don't understand what makes us Evertonians, so I can forgive you, you'll never understand.

Notice as well, how that doesn't even mention Liverpool, but you all get very defensive straight away, and your bitterness comes out.

Everton is open to all comers - colours creeds, religions, nationalities. The only thing we require is that they are not glory hunters (which in the last decade or so, isn't really a concern).

If and when we do move to Kirkby, it will just be another chapter in our long history.
Of course if you knew your history, you'd know that when we played at Anfield, that was outside of the City boundary, as was Goodison.
We would be approx 3 miles away from our beloved Goodison, so it's not going to be a big thing at the end of the day.

We sing what we sing and if that includes a line or two about you lot, then so be it, at least it's not from a musical and regurgitated at the first opportunity by that ridiculous old belter, Gerry Marsden.

When all is said and done, you support Liverpool, I support Everton. We have differing views on what makes a great club, or what football is all about. You have proved that you all think a hell of a lot more about us than you'd like to admit.

I'll leave you with this quote, and will not be drawn any further on this;

"There are only two teams in this city, Everton, and Everton Reserves" (Alex Young, stolen and rehashed by Bill Shankley, but that's OK, at least he had good humour about him).

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 29, 2007 10:49 AM

LEMONS wrote...

There you go again about you thinking YOU are great because your team are crap and you follow them blindly, we are a well run sports club, If memory serves the 'youth team' that beat us 6-3 who we still got behind and sung as loudly as ever are the same youth team that the peoples club could only manage to muster 2 thirds of a ground and booed the team off after a narrow 1-0 defeat!

You have selective memory you state how great you are but dismiss the times when your supporters get so viscious due to them being so frustrated that players like Simon Davies and James McFadden were scared to receive the ball, of to such extent the first player had to leave. A total discrace...if this is your attitude then you shouldn't bother you walk up to the ground with so called real fans!

I can be proud to say no matter how bad a player performs we will never reduce them to the ruins your supporters do...even the great Davie Moyes continues to get vile boos...If the winning part doesn't really matter why behave so badly when you lose? why go embarrassingly over the top when you win. You borader on
pskisophrenic.

You go as far as saying if you happen to follow a successful team you're not a real fan...there is no getting away from the fact that you think you're great because your team are rubbish and nothing will improve while bill 'the clown' kenwright is in charge.

You support a sports team and sport is about competing...you dont compete...sport is about winning...you dont win anything anymore.

I admire that you stick by your team under such dire circumstances but it gives you no right to criticise us for supporting a successful team and as you state we can sing what we want it has nothing to do with you.

And funny how you mock our Gerry Marsden anthem yet get excited by your Dixon of Dockgreen anthem performed by a bleedin kazoo! do me a favour.

You nicked that off Watford for Gods sake!

Some how dont think matches against watford and the blues with both fans blowin their kazoos has the same appeal as 60,000 liverpool and celtic fans singing one of the worlds famous football anthems.

You state your fans are passionate but there simply viscious!

Posted by: LEMONS  | March 29, 2007 12:45 PM

Andy Ashton wrote...

Okay, I'll make ONE final comment.

Firstly, when you got beat 6-3, your world famous fans diappeared long before the final whistle, and there wasn't even the gut wrenching performance of YNWA. When, as you quite rightly state, we were narrowly defeated we were booing the referee Graham 'Liver'Poll, for his absolutely shocking decisions that evening, so please get your facts right.

Simon Davies was booed for lack of effort and not lack of talent, quite rightly.
James McFadden only receives criticism when he shows lack of effort.

David Moyes' boos only come when we are subject to a cowardly, spineless display. Everton fans have always been famous for their vociferous, bordering on vicious support, but we have always been famous for appreciating good football, which we have a long history of playing.
Liverpool do not have that same history of great football, although you do have the trophies to show for it. Each to to their own. As they say, it's not the winning that counts, it's the taking part. As long as our players play with some heart and soul, then we are satisfied.
That's the BIG difference, our concern is not about the winning or losing, it is the effort that the players put in.
I didn't say if you follow a successful team then you aren't a real fan, but these real fans are getting rarer and rarer and we both know it.

Also, who gives a toss if Celtic sing YNWA, it's cringeworthy whoever sings it.
Our 'theme' is from the TV cop show Z-Cars (the boys in blue duh!), not Dixon of Dock Green, and Watford took it after us. We do not use it as our anthem, tearfully waving a scarf and wearing 3000 badges. Z-Cars is played as the team step onto the pitch, and it is quite apt as it was set in the 'new town' of Kirkby.
Finally, the big difference here is that you care about the 'appeal' of a game and how it looks to the outside world, so it is nothing but an empty, plastic gesture, designed to make yourselves look like 'the world's greatest fans'. I'd take a game against Watford with real fans, than some 'glitzy' tie against the Liverpool of the North, Celtic any day of the week, as long as I get to see my beloved Everton.

Seems like we're not the same.

This will be the final comment on this, I will not be reading or commeting any further on this as I stated on my own blog;

http://bluenotes.merseyblogs.co.uk/

Posted by: Andy Ashton  | March 29, 2007 12:54 PM

Phil Lennon wrote...

The Dixon of Dock Green comment was meant to be a sarcastic dig at the fact I couldn't care less were you picked it up from.

Again the Graham Poll remark is because he had a few dodgy games against you...join the other 19 clubs in the league who constantly suffer from his bad judgesment...once again you are thinking the world is against you and everything bad that happens is about you only...we all have our faults you just blame everyone but yourselves for yours...we both had born and bred fans as chairmen...ours made mistakes and couldn't take the club any further yours is a clown who makes ridiculous comments constantly embarrassing all associated like your own Prince Philip..'oh no what has he said now' you need to realise your failings are your own fault and need to stop feeling sorry for yourselves and correct them yourselves.

And the reason why you think Watford are 'real' fans is because their team is sh*te and you get on the martyr front again 'ooh look at me i'm great because my team are crap'

Get over yourselves!

Posted by: Phil Lennon  | March 29, 2007 4:03 PM

Joe wrote...

Milan!

Milan!

Milan!

Milan!

Milan!

Posted by: Joe  | May 24, 2007 10:22 AM

Phil wrote...

Sometimes successful sides lose in finals this is because they get there that often. It is not a nice feeling so Evertonians should be thankful that this is not an experience they will ever have to go through!! YNWA

Posted by: Phil  | May 24, 2007 1:32 PM